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[Rose]

If a person makes false allagations then the punishment should be harsh,it ruins the lives of those accused as well as their familys and freinds.

[admin]

why i am a bit wary of this is i know laws passed for good reasons are often missused and misinterpreted like joint enterprise the prevention of terrorism act etc.

No, it's a very good point, which is why I thought a thorough discussion on it might be helpful. If there were to be harsher sentences for malicious allegations, there would have to be safeguards, otherwise you'd effectively replace one problem with another.

For example, not so long ago, I was considering an idea which would have helped compensate for a point you made in an earlier post, that harsher sentences would discourage false accusers from having an attack of conscience later and admitting they'd made it up. I considered that in the same way that there are occasionally knife amnesties, there could be a false accusation amnesty and that at least that way the innocents in prisons would stand a better chance of being released. However, when you think it all through it becomes complicated and the unintended consequences could be dire. People may be inclined to make false allegations, claim compensation, then later during an amnesty retract it which while it may shorten the ordeal for some would only increase the frequency of the problem.

As with many things, the answer won't be easy to find, but I'm convinced it can be better than it is now.

[Sandra Lean]

For me, there's one obvious point at which malicious allegations could be tackled, and that is at the "investigation" stage. I know personally of four cases where an allegation was made, the police interrogated the accused person, it became clear that there were holes in the accusers story, s the police went thundering off to the accuser... not to say, hey, you just made this up, but to say, if you want this to stick, you're going to have to change this, this and this.

We need to get back to investigations being investigations of the facts, rather than simply a trawling exercise to find (or create) "facts" that support the allegation. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they should disbelieve people who make allegations, that would be absurd, but once an allegation is made, they need to approach the investigation in a fair and balanced manner, rather than the tunnel vision approach of finding stuff to support the allegation, regardless of anything else they turn up.

At least that way, those who are maliciously accused would stand a chance. Rather than passing new laws, we should be demanding that they use the existing rules and regulations in the manner they were intended, rather than stretching them to the limit time and time again, just to obtain convictions.

[Flora]

Sandra.

I agree wholeheartedly.  I also think that the police should be more robustly supervised, with penalties imposed, including demotion, retraining, sacking, fining and possibly jail terms imposed on those whose actions fall short of a reasonable standard, including deliberately tampering with, or concealing/detroying/"losing" evidence with a view to enhancing the possibility of gaining a conviction.

[nugnug]

For me, there's one obvious point at which malicious allegations could be tackled, and that is at the "investigation" stage. I know personally of four cases where an allegation was made, the police interrogated the accused person, it became clear that there were holes in the accusers story, s the police went thundering off to the accuser... not to say, hey, you just made this up, but to say, if you want this to stick, you're going to have to change this, this and this.

We need to get back to investigations being investigations of the facts, rather than simply a trawling exercise to find (or create) "facts" that support the allegation. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they should disbelieve people who make allegations, that would be absurd, but once an allegation is made, they need to approach the investigation in a fair and balanced manner, rather than the tunnel vision approach of finding stuff to support the allegation, regardless of anything else they turn up.

At least that way, those who are maliciously accused would stand a chance. Rather than passing new laws, we should be demanding that they use the existing rules and regulations in the manner they were intended, rather than stretching them to the limit time and time again, just to obtain convictions.

well if the storys full of holes do they not think there might be a reason for that or don't they care.

[admin]

See, I agree completely with Sandra's point re. investigations being, well investigations but I think that's something that needs to start happening across the board whether it's an allegation that's been reported or something else that starts it off. How else can we ever have any faith in the outcome?

My problem with leaving it there for provably malicious allegations, particularly ones of abuse, is that there is damage being done to the victims of malicious allegations and their families from the word go. How long does the stigma last, that is if it they're lucky enough for it to leave them at all? Lets not forget that the accusation itself will most likely show up on an enhanced CRB check, for a period of time at least.

The thing is, from that thorough and proper investigation, not only would it be possible to prevent many of the wrongful convictions, it could also turn up evidence of conspiracy to make a malicious allegations too such as text messages, emails, diaries etc. containing details of a plan to do so for example. Under those circumstances should we be content that the accused doesn't become wrongly convicted, or should there be a clearer message sent out to dissuade others from thinking it's a good idea?

The way I see it, it's not that we need new laws, they exist already and have been used, sometimes rightly, sometimes wrongly, in the past. Which takes us back to Sandra's point about the investigation being conducted properly in the first instance. Here sadly is an example of how the law as it stands can be used to combat the problem, but also when shoddy police work is at the centre of the investigation. As a result, from the details in this article at least, it appears this genuine victim is facing the type of sentence which should be reserved for cases where the idea that the accusation is malicious is beyond all reasonable doubt. http://www.wronglyaccusedperson.org.uk/2011/08/12/laylas-story-jailed-reporting-sexual-assault/

Jailing genuine victims is clearly not the answer. The message should instead be, if you're a victim we will leave no stone unturned in the pursuit of justice for you, but if we can prove beyond all reasonable doubt that your claim is malicious, we will do likewise for your victim. Of course, the only way to achieve that is as Sandra says, to start with a proper investigation.

[Sandra Lean]

If investigations were carried out in this manner, three things would happen - firstly, the chances of a genuine victm being labelled a false accuser would be drastically reduced, in the case of false accusations, there would be robust evidence that the accused did nothing wrong (especially if it became widely known that such robust investigations were being carried out) and the inveistigation itself would turn up, in malicious cases, at least enough evidence to bring a charge of wasting police time.

Accused persons are left to bear the stigma because the presumption of guilt is so prevalent in both police approaches and media reporting. Get a clear message out there - these investigations will be looking into everything, and unless or until there is clear evidence of wrongdoing the accused person is presumed to be innocent by everyone - it would take time to change attitudes, but it would be a place to start at least. Also, after such a robust investigation, it would do no harm, in the case of false and malicious alllegations, for a senior police officer to make a public statement in that regard, thereby officially stating that there was nothing whatsoever on the accused person.

It's a horribly difficult subject, but there are some things that could be put in place right away which would begin to ease that, whilst protecting everyone (except those who make false and malicious allegations, of course.)

[HaveHope]

The link that Billy posted is regarding an article about Layla Ibrahim who was released on home detention curfew last week after serving 13 months in jail. She had recieved a 3 year sentence. IF she is innocent, she should do whatever she can to clear her name. If she is innocent 2 men have been allowed to roam free whilst she was in prison and could have offended again.  IF she is guilty as charged, she has learned a very hard lesson, but she must get on with her life as she has a young child to consider. Her family have been so supportive, and I dare say they will continue their support for their daughter/sister.  Innocent or guilty, it is a very sad and troubling story.

[nugnug]

i think what they should do if some makes an allegation they should check to see if theve made the same allegation before and if so how many times.

and also they should check to see if the person there accusing has been accused before and if so how many times.

[nugnug]

sorry wrong thread.

[wichfinder]

well i think i should report the man down the road from me. i mean he looks like a pervert he wears one of them bobble hats you know.

[HaveHope]

well i think i should report the man down the road from me. i mean he looks like a pervert he wears one of them bobble hats you know.

PMSL 

[admin]

I'm sure witchfinder could get a job with the CPS coming up with their closing speeches