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[admin]

Earlier this week, HaveHope posted elsewhere on the forum, A FRIEND YOU COULD DO WITHOUT, which relates to a David McGhee being sentenced to carry out 100 hours community service for 'wasting police time'. He had used the emergency 999 service to wrongly accuse someone who was supposed to be his friend of having sex with a minor. He had given a false address when making the calls and later admitted making it up. His excuse? - He had been going through a period of stress at the time.

Had his 'friend' been found guilty he would have spent a considerable time in prison and been obliged to sign the rest of his life away, condemned to a life of unwarranted stigma and abuse. It's possible he will endure a portion of that regardless of McGhee's confession. These accusations are very easy to make with no proof whatsoever, so in cases where it is later shown that the allegations are malicious, is 100 hours community service really all that much of a deterrent? And would genuine victims of crime not stand a better chance of receiving the justice they deserve if resources weren't being wasted on malicious claims? Don't think those resources are limited to the police and justice system either. Consider the effect and cost of the stress it imposes on the accused's partners, children, family and friends some of whom will become dependant on medical services for support, or increased benefits when the bread winner is thrown in prison for something they haven't done. Compensation being paid to victims who aren't really victims of anything, the list goes on and on.

People do it for a whole host of reasons too, revenge, blackmail to get something they want, financial gain, parental alienation is a common reason or like the above just a sick joke that quite simply isn't funny in any way whatsoever. Is 100 hours community service really likely to deter someone and are we really to accept it is proportionate to the potential real cost if they were successful with their false accusations?

We have campaigns being run all over the place to have people put on publicly available lists naming and shaming them, but few consider how many people will be on them as a result of people like Mr McGhee or someone who thought it was an easy way to get a few thousand quid in their bank account and don't care of the consequences to the many other people it affects. There's no evidence the lists work in any case, the re-offending rates anywhere they're used seems to have remained static, the people hell bent on committing those offences are probably pushed deeper underground by them in reality. One thing that can't be denied is that the incidences of people subjected to vilification and vigilante attacks through mistaken identity or because the victims shouldn't have been on the list in the first place is far greater than it would be without them, and false accusations contribute to them.

So, I've started this thread for people to discuss the issue, perhaps with examples and their views on what they think the solution is. Personally, I don't think much harsher sentences to deter provably malicious allegations would dissuade genuine victims from reporting crimes, they are more likely to be put off by the thought of being tarred with the same brush as those who make it all up so deterring people from doing just that can only help the genuine victims in my view.

[nugnug]

of course theirs false and theirs malicious allegations.

[CarolToal]

Personally, as my son was imprisoned not because he committed any crime but because of the lies told by certain witnesses during his trial.  I feel now with the new evidence we have, it would not be difficult to prove the versions given in court were totally outrageous lies, and would love to see these people made to serve the same sentence in prison as the sentence their lies imposed on my son.  I have always said if and when Seans conviction is seen for what it is, I would like to prosecute these witnesses for the heartbreak they have put my son and our family through to save their own face.  Of course 100 hours community service is not going to resolve the problem, as these are serious crimes being committed in the most public way, making a fool out of the crown also a complete waste of the taxpayers hard earned cash.   

[nugnug]

maybe they should make the same as perjury.

[HaveHope]

I'll try and keep this short.  I knew a lad who was in a relationship.  He was a lovely guy, she was, well lets just say she had issues which I sympathised with but on the whole she wasnt a nice person, but he adored her.  She had several affairs, but always denied them, and he believed her.  I always suspected that he knew the truth but chose to ignore it as he thought the sun shone out her ass.  One day out of the blue he told me he was going to leave her as he had had enough of her lies and cheating, he said he had been thinking about it for a while.  I was shocked, as much as I thought he was a nice guy I thought he was a bit of a doormat and would have put up with anything she done.  We had been friends for years and I had known her for the same length of time but I wouldnt have classed her as a friend, just someone I knew and didnt particulary like.  He was going to go round and have a chat with her, pack his stuff, take it to his mothers, and said he would phone me once he got to his parents house.  I didnt get a phone call at home, and it was before I had a mobile, so I assumed that he had backed out of leaving.

The next day, I heard that he had been arrested that morning due to an allegation of rape by his partner.  For the best part of a year this guy had the s*** kicked out of him on a weekly basis, his car was damaged, his parents home was spray painted beast all over the walls when it was cleaned up it was done again, his younger brother and sister got bullied at school, he lost his job due to depression, he started to drink, he lost some of his so called friends, and for what?  Yes he went round and finished the relationship, yes he packed his stuff and left.  The thing was she wasnt at home, he wrote her a note and went to his parents and at silly o'clock in the morning there was a knock at the door.  It took her months to admit that she lied, but even after she admitted to the police that she had said it out of badness because he was leaving her, the assaults on him still continued, as did the verbal abuse to him and his family.  A whole family was torn apart and damaged beyond repair as far as Im concerned, because of one little brat, but yet not a thing happened to her, no charges for making a malicious accusation and wasting police time, not a sausage.  Its my opinion that because she had been under social services and in and out of childrens homes that she was cut some slack. (she attended the police station with a social worker to retract her statement) I am normally sympathetic to anyone who has had a difficult past but this gives no one an excuse to make false accusations against another and regardless of her past troubles she should have been taught a lesson and dealt with severely.

I dont know what appropriate punishement would have made sure that she never put anyone through anything like this again, but the fact that she wasnt punished left me in the belief that she would do it, or similar again.  Concocting a story, lifting the phone, making the allegation, and going on to make a statement, keeping up the pretence must take some doing, but it came so easily to her and there's many more like her unfortunatley. 

[nugnug]

the only problem with this though is if a person makeing a false allegation was faceing a serious punishment for doing it would mean they couldent then go back and withdraw the allegation.

once they had told there story they would have to stick with it.

[HaveHope]

the only problem with this though is if a person makeing a false allegation was faceing a serious punishment for doing it would mean they couldent then go back and withdraw the allegation.

once they had told there story they would have to stick with it.

Perhaps, but if there was serious penalties in place maybe it would prevent them from making false accusations in the first place.  Whether it be police fabricating evidence, or guys like McGhee, or witnesses on the stand blatantly lying, or spurned lovers turning on ex partners, no one seems to be held accountable for the malicious part they play in destroying peoples reputations and lives.

[nugnug]

true but i often injustice are perpetuated by there no get out clause for the people involved.

[Flora]

I haven't any ideas. It's a difficult issue, because if a penalty is imposed for wrongful accusations, people might be less likely to retract their allegations after the damage has been done.  Also, if a guilty person "gets off" with it and is found "not guilty" at a trial, the accusers could then be accused of making false accusations for malicious motives.

[HaveHope]

I haven't any ideas. It's a difficult issue, because if a penalty is imposed for wrongful accusations, people might be less likely to retract their allegations after the damage has been done.  Also, if a guilty person "gets off" with it and is found "not guilty" at a trial, the accusers could then be accused of making false accusations for malicious motives.

Flora the discussion is about innocent people (not guilty people) being targeted with malicious accusations and how their lies and storytelling can destroy peoples lives.  I asked in a previous post, what goes through these peoples minds to concoct a vicious story knowing that the person could get into serious trouble?  It is sheer badness in my opinion and people like David McGhee, and my friends ex partner will think they are untouchable because they got away with it.  David McGhee's excuse was he was stressed, the brats excuse was that he was leaving her and moving on.  A pair of despicable individuals in my opinion, who deserved to be severely punished, one way or other, so that they realise the damage their false accusations had done to their victim, and hopefully they will think twice about ever doing it again.

[nugnug]

of course the trouble is sorting malicious from mere false allegations where the accuser thought it was true.
if someone acted in good faith and thought what they were saying was true it wouldn't be fair they proscuted even it turned out to be false.

i do know of a few cases where people have been falsely accused not of malice but out of a lot of silly misunderstandings that would be funny under different circumstances.

[HaveHope]

of course the trouble is sorting malicious from mere false allegations where the accuser thought it was true.
if someone acted in good faith and thought what they were saying was true it wouldn't be fair they proscuted even it turned out to be false.i do know of a few cases where people have been falsely accused not of malice but out of a lot of silly misunderstandings that would be funny under different circumstances.

I agree, but they should be 110% sure before speaking to anyone especially in relation to serious crimes like murder and that of a sexual nature.  The above cases that have been highlighted are not silly misunderstandings by the accuser, the individuals were hell bent in getting the person into trouble, and knew exactly what they were doing and were just being spiteful, in my opinion.

[admin]

I haven't any ideas. It's a difficult issue, because if a penalty is imposed for wrongful accusations, people might be less likely to retract their allegations after the damage has been done.  Also, if a guilty person "gets off" with it and is found "not guilty" at a trial, the accusers could then be accused of making false accusations for malicious motives.

This is a good point, but I understand HaveHope's response. It could never, nor should it, be the case that if someone is found not guilty that any allegations made against them are automatically deemed to be malicious, that would be crazy. I suppose the easiest example to draw on would be calls to the emergency services, how many people would choose not to report something if they thought they would be charged if the incident had stopped and people involved had moved on by the time police arrived.

However the point would be that it would act as a deterrent if in cases where it could be shown that the allegations were malicious, the accuser were dealt with more appropriately. HaveHope wonders if in the example she gave the girl went on to accuse again, it's possible she already had too I suppose. I know of one case whereby someone had made allegations against one partner which appear not to have been true, when she separated with her following partner she embarked on a course of hateful and threatening messages toward both him and the person he was later with. She failed to split them up and subsequently claims of abuse were reported to police which could not possibly be true, she lied through court which could easily be proven but following the guilty verdict walked past his partner and said "Told you I'd split you up". There's nothing to stop her doing the same a third, forth, fifth or sixth time is there?

[HaveHope]

David McGhee called 999 twice to claim that his friend was in a sexual relationship with a 15-year-old girl. Officers from Strathclyde Police and the force's family protection unit spent hours investigating the accusations which turned out to be false.McGhee, 24, was later arrested and told police that he had “just made it up” and did not know why.   He admitted in court that he had lied and had wasted police time. 

I am so angry with him. These man hours that were used investigating his malicious accusation against his friend could have been better spent investigating genuine abuse calls of concern.

[nugnug]

why i am a bit wary of this is i know laws passed for good reasons are often missused and misinterpreted like joint enterprise the prevention of terrorism act etc.